Church Pirates August 19, 2008
Posted by illiniphil in Uncategorized.trackback
A big thanks to Josh Moraghan for sending this video to me. I found it to be very thought provoking.
Watch it and let me know what your thoughts are…it should be interesting.
It would have been nice to hear more than a 7 minute clip (if in fact there was more). From what I saw I have a few thoughts. First it sounds like he is someone who was recently burned by what he was sharing. I believe the whole setting of him sitting and sharing is part of the “effect” he wants in bringing out his point.
As a recent church planter I have this to offer. A church split should never become or be confused with a church plant. I’d like to know what right does he have to determine who is called of God to where? Is it because his mega church is suddenly shrinking?
I can only speak from my personal experience but having been a part of the Ohio church planting network for about three years I did not find one pastor who was a “Pirate” These were men and women truely called of God and with a passion for souls and a community. No one I met was “sheep stealing”. While it’s true that occasionaly some people will leave because they may prefer the new ministry, most go with a call to serve (and hopefully the former pastor’s blessing). While I do agree that many church plants start by taking a smaller group from a larger group a few miles across town this is certainly not a “pirate” situation. It is an investment by a pastor of vision in another pastor to see more souls enter the kingdom. In my experience I was not blessed to have a home church pastor (not from this section) with such vision. He, like Ed Young, was too insecure to help our plant get started for fear he would lose too many people. So we built literally from the ground up with just 8 people, (which everyone in church planting will tell you makes it expodentionally more difficult to succeed).
I remember a former pastor of mine sharing something his pastor said to him once many years ago when he wanted to start a coffee house ministry at their church when these were looked at as kind of radical. He simply asked “Will people get saved? If they will then do it” The goal of church planting, when done correctly, is to see souls saved. Isn’t that supposed to be our goal? I encourage our sectional lead pastors to embrace church planting and not look at it as Ed Young does. Not as a threat, but as a co-laboror in building GOD”S KINGDOM and not worry so much about building our own. Needless to say this struck a nerve with me. Church plants or any church for that matter cannot stop the people from going elsewhere. If people are doing that in your church maybe it’s time to look inside instead of pointing a finger out side. I would very much like to hear your comments.
Perhaps I can shed some light from a different angle. I understand Paul’s G’s concern about “inbred” thinking and insecure pastors who want no other “competing” church in their area. My son is an associate pastor in a church that had been blessed by an A/G district, only to remove the endorsement because two area churches (in a metro area of 600,000) later objected. The money had already been raised and the prospective pastor and family had already left their “mother church” in another state and moved to the area. Obviously the backward thinking of these pastors (and possibly the district) was not Kingdom minded. The church was eventually planted under a non-denom banner by agreement with the superintendent…and nine years later is over 3,000 in attendance on three campuses. By the way, the district would love to call it A/G…and he never proselytized from the two objecting churches.
However as a former pastor and one who ministers to other pastors, I am aware of “church piracy” (as Young describes). I don’t know enough about Young to judge his motives as insecure, and I didn’t get that reaction from his little “town meeting.” I would have guessed he was citing the grievance of a friend who has been injured by disloyalty within his staff – as he says. What I do know is that big churches are big targets for opportunists. The least sign of weakness and gathering wolves don sheep or shepherd attire.
In the town where I pastored, a large church was split by an associate pastor who, today, is considered somewhat of a “hero” in Po-Mo circles. He had been given huge profile by the senior pastor to create a Saturday night contemporary service. The mission was to minister to a larger cross section of young adults. The program was highly successful, but the senior was diagnosed with a debilitating disease and his leadership was weakened for a period of time. The associate was called upon to minister to the whole congregation during that time. Within months, this associate, who had been heavily profiled and resourced by the church, “felt led” to start another church (styled after the Saturday night services) a few miles away. The senior was remarkably gracious, and knowing that there was no way to oppose this without polorizing the people – he essentially “blessed” out of his church 2000 people (about half). When you read the story from the “church planter” you would think he simply prayed and a miracle windfall from God came through the doors that first Sunday. He gives no credit to his senior or his former church. Proselytizers do exist and we’re warned in scripture about the confusion and damage they cause.
I am fortunate never to have experience a painful split while I was senior pastoring. Oh we did have a few “splinters” of dissidents who found someone who would tickle their ears. None of those churches ever lasted – and the sheep were scattered. But virtually every healthy A/G church in the greater metro-area was at sometime started by the church we pastored (either before or during our time). I’m sure they’ll plant many more.
I don’t know that much about Ed Young – though I think they’ve planted about five church campuses. My take is that Ed Young is not objecting to legitimate church plants or to churches being mothered by mature congregations. I think he’s objecting to disloyalty, pretense, and manipulation by opportunists who set up shop within a congregation (especially given the profile of a staff position) – then use that influence “church plant” down the road.
I cheer on every chapion who has ever scratched the soil to plant a church – whether with the blessing of a mother church’s intentional resources…or whether as a pioneer who is carving out new territory in the Kingdom of God. In heaven, I think you’ll be well above my pay grade!
I saw this video quite a while ago, via another A/G Bloggers site. It does cause one to think, and there are a couple of vantage points, as expressed in the previous comments. :0D
The reason I am commenting today is to invite you to add this blog to the Assembly of God Blogs network. FYI: The Greater Dayton Section blog is currently within the network as well as several OH Dist Pastors. If you’d like more information, you can email me, visit my personal blog (A Hoosier Family) or visit the Assembly of God Blogs network site at http://assemblyofgodblogs.blogspot.com
Blessings!
~Sharon~
PS- I’m an A/G Pastor’s wife in Indiana. However, I grew up in Orrville with Calvary A/G being my ‘home-church’. So you can say I’m from your neck of the woods.